Review of Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 5. John Rocha, Dennis Tzeng, and Ashley V. Robinson break down the show and speculate what will happen on next week’s series finale. Subscribe to Collider for more #GameOfThrones:
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hey everyone welcome to another episode of Thrones talk we're all trying to keep the studio from falling down on us from that dragon swinging through here episode 72 season 8 episode 5 the game revealed hey stitches don't only get stitches they get burnt to death a lot to talk about here a lot of battles a lot of Mac political machinations going on into a hashtag the mad queen it's here it's really happening poor Jon Snow he what's he gonna do now so we're gonna talk about all of this I'm your host Jon Roca joined as always by two of the Game of Thrones enthusiasts and the co-hosts of Watch the Throne let's start with a lovely Ashta victoria robinson how are you actually so good but Jon I think you mean poor Aegon Targaryen the six of his name are you my friend I'm doing well I I quite enjoyed this episode we're gonna talk about it I know a lot of people have a lot of feelings about it but I don't know we'll see yeah let's get into it there's a lot to explore here when we start out at Dragonstone Varys writing and his beautiful penmanship by the way beautiful letters that he's writing they're a revealing going out what is it his little birds is that what he calls him where's little people that are due to have all the his little birds right bringing all these messages to other people kind of trying to curry favor for Jon Snow from all around the realm to support him possibly becoming King but this of course gets found out tyrion reveals or betrays him to Danny and it all comes down to him getting burnt to a crisp him taking the rings on I don't know if I'm right on this or not and maybe it's the Pasha's I go talk about it but it felt very reminiscent of Charles Laughton in Spartacus when he's about to be killed he kind of takes off his rings as well very very Greek or Roman I started very Roman in that way and it felt that way with Varys and the way he went down so this is all the beginning here you know we see Varys trying to convince John to go against Danny this is his plan which picks up from where we left off in the last episode Ashley did this surprise you at all Varys is untimely exit from this world after all stuff you did that Terry will be the one that turn on him I was a little surprised that he died I wasn't surprised that Tyrion turned on him to me that's well established because there's been that back and forth betrayal and even though there is a friendship there and we saw that when he went out um I was disappointed that it was Tyrion yeah it made me really very scared that I've come to really really like really enjoy on the show and I mean I know there's only 90 minutes left at this point but I was I was kind of sad to see him go out I know we saw him burn the letter but there was only one letter right um I think we're gonna see the implications of that and perhaps more about the Rings and what that signifies moving forward I don't think we spend the geography considering what else happens in this episode on those shots if it's not gonna mean something going forward yeah we had someone coming in one of his little birds coming in saying oh she won't eat she doesn't want to do anything which is basically telling us that Dani is in a trance basically still angry still in revenge mode listen I was that way in the military whenever they treat you and make you really angry you don't eat you just sit there and fester in your anger so waiting for revenge later on that you never get to get but like this is the situation here you see with Dani in the way she was handling things this shot of her when she was looking out after she had told Tyrion about the picture that she knew about the betrayal thought it was Jon Snow ends up being Barris she looked like a Targaryen like full Mad Targaryen in the white and the hair driven out like what did you think about how she how they're taking her character and doing this with her Dennis at the beginning here yeah I mean the thing is yes it was Varys who betrayed her but she still put the blame on Jon Snow she's still got blame on tearing you have to blame him on sausage you put the blame on a lot of different people obviously they didn't suffer any consequences because they were still loyal to her right we're also for more powerful houses than various like it's a bigger it's a bigger overall political maneuver if she would have killed Sansa because Sansa is sounds a stark yeah well like people know Varys says but ultimately like he's a no one yeah and it's interesting because you mentioned the papers it was writing a bunch of them yes we didn't see any Ravens go out but we we think maybe a bunch of them went out and they will see those repercussions next episode but I I thought his death it made sense I mean he either he I think he was trying to at one point poison Danny cuz he asked her food yes so it seemed like that was in play but remember when he gets burned he goes I hope I'm wrong and I hope I deserve this but then look what happens with Daenerys yeah right which we'll get to in just a little bit her blaming teary and her blaming saw her blaming John and then later you know John has this scene with her where he goes down by the fire and they're having this conversation after a grey warm and Danny throw miss Sunday's a chains I guess to remind her of where she came from and what Danny were you know released her from we see this conversation and you we see the beginnings of the fact that she feels completely isolated we saw that in the Battle of Winterfell after the Battle of in Winterfell that she's sitting there so you look at this Dennis do you think that this they've done a good job of establishing why she's turning this way do you think it's logical that she would feel isolated feel since like there are people on all sides paranoid and then when she says not love let it be fear then do you think the show has done a good job of establishing that for what we're going to see later on I mean in terms of the things that they've shown they've all built towards this and I would say it is more rushed than I would like but I mean I think these last two seasons seven and eight just because of the behind the scenes stuff in terms of of what's going on with the writers and actors and whatnot and they don't want to go on for another three or four seasons that probably what they needed for this whole complete ending so they did lay in some of that stuff but I do wish that had been longer but that's yeah they don't have that so have the time but they did lay that stuff in I just wish it was over a longer period of time yeah we see the first hints of John heavy concerns about this situation when Dragoon burns Varys to death because it seems so unnecessary to have the dragon – it just happened gray worms right there what is she's trying to send a message right John what now gets to see what she did to the tarly's so do you find that this is where kind of lay in this groundwork with him and is John playing it effectively or is a kid Harrington playing these moment these moments effectively for you Ashley I think kid Harrington has really come a long way as an actor and I think that in this season in particular he really embodies what I expect from John some but I would hope to see in that character and it's gotten very subtle as it is in that scene it's interesting when you look at it from the whole episode perspective because Varys is very much like this is what's gonna happen to King's Landing right everything that happens to him as the person who sort of epitomizes the machinations and what was going on there for so long it's interesting that later on we see the same thing played out in macrocosm citizens and everyone who's living there as well I do want to just circle back really quick you talked about Miss Sunday and the burning of her collar yeah I thought that was interesting for two reasons because it sort of backs up the like I am Daenerys Targaryen the first of my name the breaker of chains which is the narrative that we've seen her using to push herself forward but also because we know that the unsullied are supposed to have no connections no familial connections and he was burned for falling in love with her and I feel like that is him giving that away and embracing kind of that scary warrior side that we see later in the episode yeah there's nothing left of what he doesn't have to restrain himself anymore everyone's unhinged it's a really interesting I want to give some attention to what people have been saying throughout the week about what happened to miss Sunday and also what's been happening with the unsullied and with the Dothraki this idea of the foreign element being killed off feeding Danny's anger right feeding this whole thing feeling she seems to be the one taking the majority of the losses as we mentioned last week and so people were upset about how this all went down but it seems to have been done in a certain way to get to advance as you said that we don't have time to advance this idea of the mad queen right take away every barrier she has to restraint and she will give in to her more angry impulses which she has done before and now she seems to be really diving into it full full stop I mean full steam ahead I mean we did learn that the Dothraki and onslaught weren't as the casualties weren't as bad you see you know that there's quite amount less of them but you know yeah I think that was all part of it that's why I think the Masonic thing I was fine with that last week because because it does play into Daenerys a–'s character and where she's going so yeah I think it made sense okay we look at the what she says here her logic you know and every tyrant or every future potential tyrant or mad person has logic for why they're doing what they're doing she says these people might have to suffer these people might have to die for her to show mercy to future generations by ridding them of a tyrant but isn't that the way it always goes Ashley you're not a tyrant if you take over you that you're gonna be the benevolent one yes but if you can't have anyone contradict you without getting burnt to a crisp then you're just as bad of a tyre you just don't see it yeah villains never think they're villains and I'm not implying calm down that Danny but we've definitely been building to more villainous troubling aspects of that character um you know she's a tough character for me and Dennis and I talked about this on the last what the throne podcast but I could understand where she's coming from and why she sees these as betrayals and why she's as mad at Tyrion as she is because from her perspective she has lost everything and now she's lost Tyrion and now she's lost Ferris and now she's lost Jon whether that's correct or not that's her perception um do I think what she did is okay do I think it's logical perhaps not but it's certainly effective do you like what they're doing with her though this idea that she's like I need you to love me and you push you love me I'm gonna get upset now I'm gonna burn everything to the ground like it doesn't seem big seem like the show treats female characters poorly what I'm asking you with Danny are they rushing this a little too much yes we're losing and small bizarre impulse so that is the geography that we have left if this were two seasons of six episodes yeah um it was kind of like how a lot of people felt critical of the bran and Jamie and her brands reaction when Jamie laughs I think if we'd had a couple more episodes to really see why Danny and Jon were good together yeah and how they made each other happy I think that when John tells her I love you we would believe it and then I think when she is so upset the second time that she's sort of tried this is yes to catch his temperature and it hasn't worked then I think it would make it's not that it doesn't make sense but it would feel better and that's a weird ephemeral thing when you're talking about your right maybe she should stop trying to do that in front of the fire I think that's really cool the game you say it is too hot all right for those who get that reference our she she starts to send the unsullied and she promises not to attack if she hears the bells which is of course is great for shadowing did you at this moment I'm a pole both of you did you believe her when she's when she had that kind of agreement with Tyrion that's enough Dennis did you think she would stop the show would make her stop probably not because at that well I was thinking either the bells are never gonna ring yes or if they ring she's not gonna listen to them because then what's gonna happen imagine that if the whole episode was they get up to that point the bell rings she goes okay everyone stand down and then they have the surrender yeah of Kingsland that's not that's not we were gonna do that when the Lannisters first there were the captain threw down a sword I was like well you know you hit that staples the button it's like well that was easy so there was like a split second where I actually thought that that was how it was gonna play out yeah I think maybe cuz I was minding that how long the episode was I was like there's still a good amount of episode sure that she was she might stop and see the error of her ways in that moment and then there'd be more with Cersei over the next two episodes where she might like they would let her live but she might use people in a certain way to get back to the point where she could probably take over again and that kind of jazz but nope they went ahead and let her go with who she will get to in just a second here yet and she gives us ominous warning to Tyrion telling him that the next time he fails her will be the last time he fails her in that so she is full-on embracing this laying the groundwork a little bit of what she's gonna do here a little bit later in the episode let's get to King's Landing and talk about the first part of the battle here Tyrion and Davos tieran asks him to smuggle something shoutout to liam Cunningham who was a guest on Collider live last week we got to interview him that he still survived this guy said I was smuggling his life away but we know that he essentially implying that he is going to try to smuggle Jaime out into and to get him into King's Landing this is on the camp outside King's Landing here re in the Hound they start marching through and they're going to go and kill she's if RA just says a flat out she's going to kill Cersei and they march right on through interior a ghost see Jaime we have this incredibly touching scene between these two Ashley this has been building for as is eight seasons now but we get a little more background into their relationship when Tyrion says I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you as a child you made my life livable because you're the only wanted to look at me like a monster and now we understand the eight seasons of them both doing things for each other to help each other against what you would think they normally do and risking punishment yeah this is the scene that's gonna get Peter Dinklage another Emmy congratulations can't wait you're crushing it yeah that's something that's delved into a little more in the books just because there's more geography about Jaime and Terry ins relationship versus Tyrion and Cersei is relationship this was the scene rose like cool cool cool Jaime dead now like he's dying before the end of this episode we don't often in television allow men to have feelings and we often in fantasy don't allow men to have feelings so I thought that this scene between two brothers was really beautiful and it kind of gets lost in all of the action and the carnage that comes later so I'm glad that we're actually taking time to talk about it well Dennis is you like the scene and did you think that the child was did you believe this nuts I've gone back and forth wondering if she's really pregnant but they hinged both of them hinged their motivations here on this child of Circe's did you believe there was still a child and did you buy that they would use this as a reason for what they're doing well I mean I think I do believe the child is there I think the child was because even in the moments with Cersei and Jaime they still talk about it it's not like oh by the way that wasn't real psyche I think that was just more of a plot device than anything else I did find Jamie and turians kind of goodbye more emotionally satisfying than I did Jamie's in Circe's together okay literals in the episode yes like when they were saying goodbye I was like because it was a role reversal before yeah when you had Jamie saving and helping tearing landscape death and he's almost like in a similar plan like okay when you get you get in a boat and you go to you go to know and so I like that moment and I think their relationship was done very well yeah he makes Jamie swear to him and Jamie does and this is all going to happen they're gonna sneak off in a pentose I thought for sure Jamie was gonna step out and Arya was gonna I mean a Dany was gonna be waiting for him oh really I thought I thought Danny was gonna be waiting for Tyrion and Jaime and be like I told you the next time you you fail me we the last time I really thought Danny was gonna kill Tyrion in this episode I just felt it in my bones and it didn't happen dammit alright anyway alright you're honest out there hanging out with these ships looking badass and cheesy and pulling back the the dragon bows that they're gonna use to try to shoot down drove into scorpions drawn they're like looking into the sky they feel the wind and all of a sudden out of the Sun which is brilliant that's so smart to use it as a device to make it more difficult to aim Drago and come down and just lays waste to that to that fleet and you know eventually you're on jumps out because this ship gets exploded and he lays waste to all those scorpions that are hanging around the edges of the castle just this is one dragon doing all this incredible amount of damage Denis did it shock you that they let the dragon do all this without even a scratch on itself considering how the other two went down no I'll actually like this because one I mean there were complaints about the other dragon be so easily taken out and you're in sleep being in the right position which yeah there are some issues with that but in this case it's like yeah if you actually get into a different position the dragon can't be taken because they got to move they were shown that in the shot they're right moving the scorpions how long it took to like crank it and move it at certain angles and yeah a dragon would be able to take out the entire fleet so I thought that that made a lot of sense and just in general with the episode we've already had these big battle scenes that we big battle episodes like the Battle of Winterfell we had the Battle of the bastards and those are a lot of those like against all odds they come through in the end because of XYZ whatever right and this one was no no this is a massacre they have the dragons they have that's not what this episode was about this wasn't about two equal forces yeah against each other they think they led you to believe it and I thought maybe that would happen but instead it was no no we we still have the superior forces because we have the dragon and they take him out so easily plus the the Landstar army they don't have any love for for Cersei right there they easily surrender because they're like well it's not like they have a leader they can get behind like I'd rather live yeah you talked about this we talked about them laying down the source we'll get to in just a second but before we get there there's prepping of this whole situate the golden company a lot of money was spent on the golden company no elephant yeah I'm not sure what the elephant's would have done I'll be honest with you they would have got burnt to a crisp as well elephant tastes just like chicken by the way and then you have all the other you have all the other the army of the Starks and all of them lined up to kind of go against them with grey worm and Jon Snow sir Davos all I'm sitting there and Tyrion once again says to John I'm a little more of the foreshadowing kind of knocking you on the head a little bit remember when the bells rang everybody pulled back stop habla all this gets set up and then out of nowhere drove on completely destroys the front of that castle or they wall there and decimates all that golden company was that surprising for you it was surprising for me because we've seen in the imagery of the title cards the giant of Braavos holding the head the Titan of Braavos yeah and I kind of thought we were gonna get more from the golden company or we're gonna hear something about the iron bank because we heard something about its tercios with his debt she's not gonna pay them she doesn't carry got it so I was kind of surprised that they were taken out as quickly as they were and that that gentleman behind you didn't even get to speak at this episode no he did not but that's cool he was paid to show up so he got a great day right out of it I'm absolutely certain um this was a great move moving the dragon behind them which makes me wonder why we didn't just put the dragon behind the ships like using the Sun is cute and everything and Daenerys is supposed to be a highly educated character we hear about the tutor she's had over 18 years she's brought in all these mentors and like no one's bothered teacher anything about strategy until the five seconds before they blow out the gate of King's Landing it was cool for the show but it was surprising to me that Dany as we've seen her manipulating armies so far was able to be that effective yeah it was really cool yeah it was it certainly was a fantastic visual to look at and it showed you how you were thinking well maybe Cersei will figure this out sure she's got something up with there's nothing absolutely nothing she is getting de stroyed sees and hears the sounds of the pops and the cracks and things blowing up and what-have-you the golden company gets overrun then because all the Stark soldiers and the unsullied are aki rushed the golden company completely killed them grey worm killing homie behind me and you gotta ask yourself a question though did this feel like Dorne this was the golden company built up and it was absolutely irrelevant as Dorne was irrelevant I'm well hot tech Dorne is lame even in the books big deal the books it is a huge deal I'm the golden company is seated from the third book like they are you hear a lot about them it and again this could have just been cuz we only have three hours Game of Thrones left right other they were like cool Google we saw them and now you're dead thank you for showing up here's your hundred fifty dollars a raid yeah what do you think about that Dennis do you think they did right by the golden company or do you think you just kind of used him for I think we just used them to prop up search these army just so that we didn't think they were so unevenly matched that that they actually were and this is one of those things where yeah it's it's it's that time issue where they only mentioned them what the end of last season and then they brought them in so yeah I mean like I said it people were expecting maybe like this evenly matched battle or even maybe Circe's army being overpowering yeah that just wasn't the case and that wasn't the point of the episode the point was seeing what happened when Daenerys has the choice between right okay I can take I can take the kingdom in Westeros as a whole through much more peaceful means but she wants to demonstrate her power through fear right because she no longer has the things that she thought she had before right and Danny's forces in John snows forces they tear through the town killing all the soul the king of all soldiers they come across definitely winning the battle taking control this situation Circe's refusing to accept defeat we see her there with pie burn and the mountain and she's saying no my those the Lannister army will fight better than sell saurian they love me they love the queen delusion is fantastic in her and I love this shot of Tyrion he's never looked more smaller than he looks standing with that gaping hole in the wall on fire it was a great shot by the way we should give a shout out to is that Michael Miguel Sebastian Nick who directed who directed this episode by the way it's called the Belles and we should get to that's the name of the title of the episode the Belles I just got that corrected for me and we keep hearing them saying ring the bells I wrote somebody ring those damn bells because you keep hearing it screaming over and over again finally the bells ring and Dany lands that with the drag with drone and we think and they then the soldiers throw their their swords down and we think this is done maybe there's gonna be some peace here once and for all Jon Snow is relieved they're kind of in shock that it's over and Danny is kind of surveying it we see her breathing heavy and then she goes swayed straight into Mad Queen moat and just sets fire to that town and Danny or Dennis look at the timestamp and sees is only 47 minutes looking at this let's let's break this thing down now would you look good coming from this place now Danny she goes so let's look at Danny throughout this whole thing all the way to me and she is just setting fire to the town we don't actually see her that much I said that's what I'm saying as soon as she goes mad Queen she just starts setting fire to everything I was hoping I was so hoping that she was gonna say burn them all he's me know that that's what Harry said the last four three times before he died and debatable whether or not that's what he be answer with me tonight markers whatever I was really disappointed that she just kind of does like the heavy breathing yeah why Dennis why the battles over why what is the point of this that she's doing if she's not giving it if she's not giving in to a Targaryen impulses what's the bomb I mean it's partially that as well but then it's also the paranoia it's also the the power that she wants to show everyone the power that she has because they don't love her she's yeah they don't like she wants to be feared and and there's just that one point where she's flying by and there's just like innocent civilians that likes running and she just burns them I mean yeah we don't see Daenerys always see throughout the episode is like in the background the dragon flying around yeah you know it's like you see all these shots when like the hound and the mountain are fighting or Cersei is there and just the Dragons just burn and everything and all of King's Landing is on fire and you pointed that we actually saw that the shot from the trailer where drogon is flying over shadow things for brands vision right yeah right for brands yeah where were you yeah there's the shadow over the shadow of the Dragon Homer so now even more so I don't know why bran was walking into those crows at the Battle of Winterfell because I thought he was going to get the bat the lay of the land of what Cersei had yeah but nope now that I came to me he was just warring with crows for no damn reason drew Canole us he comments here he says I am so glad Danny finally broke the wheel completely did she do that or did she just become another pirate I mean did she break the wheel is she's still trying to you know sit the Iron Throne be part of the system I think this might be a step toward that but she's looking to be the most powerful cog in the wheel in my opinion which is not discounting the opinion of a comment right where was a where was Gendry in this do we see again jury he's probably holding down storms and the Lord of storms and air fair enough so why would he he got sweep up the mess bail out when you love goes in flies you're gonna sit back Hamlet Castle come on son alright kill him if she wanted to she don't go get some injury so anyway yeah we don't see Danny again but this is full-on mad Queen now we see Jon Snow's reaction to this as this move on to him as this goes along we spend more time with Jon seeing him losing faith and Danny a lot of heavy breathing on his side yes a lot of puppy-dog looking around scared eyes he's perfected so well in eight seasons of playing Jon Snow kid Harrington has Dennis this surprised you that they're going this route it looks you know we saw this week there were some interviews you know I don't know they're telling the truth or not Keith Harrington said oh he was disappointed by the ending we I mean like Clark didn't seem to have a positive reaction either but maybe we're reading into that but now we see that this is being set up that it's Jon Snow vs. Danny and it I don't do the fans want to see this is this the right way to go with John to have him kind of going in and like fighting again I can't ultimately say until we see the neck the final final episode and see how this is resolved but in terms of setting up for the finale you need something to happen one we we said John and Danny are not going to be married living happily ever after with a kid and ruling Westeros that's just not gonna happen yeah and so this is that entry point into what divides them I mean because now you have Jon Snow who I know it's not his father but it his father figure Ned's dark who's taught him about loyalty and honor and all these things and he has pledged himself to Daenerys yeah does he break that in order to either kill Daenerys dispose her in some way take the Iron Throne that he does not want yeah that's all the questions leading into the series finale how they execute that I don't know but it does set all that up and there's a reason for that well John has been adamant from the beginning of this episode she is my queen Varys she's my queen Danny you are my queen Tyrion she's my queen yeah but we've heard John say before I don't want to be Lord Commander I don't want to be like Winterfell like I don't want to lead this army like that is you know a biological father aside like that is Ned Stark to a team Ned was offered him a throne didn't want it Ned was probably in a position to take the throne didn't take it put it under Robert's rebellion of his own yeah especially since he knew the truth of what was going on with Liana and Rhaegar right um so it's interesting to see if Jon will follow in his father's footsteps to a fault or if he will you know reject that again perhaps to a fault but Denis is right like we had this big battle this episode next week's episode is gonna be back to all the machinations and all the earthly questions that we have and I guess if they bother to fulfill any of the prophecies or not and there just might not be the time for that which is fine but that's the so the inert to not establish an inner conflict between our two leads I think would have been a mistake whether or not people love it or not in service of we are doing a six season arc I think it works yeah okay yeah we could end up with Jon Snow getting beheaded a Lynette sorry next episode by Danny really affirming her rule and as a tyrant in charge of King's Landing and the Seven Kingdoms this is what nerves me a little bit about John's reaction to it all because what is he going to do Johnson really a man of action is a man of conversation yeah he's a Picard to Shatner's Kirk he is more of a talker then eventually he figures out and does the action and I wonder if this will come to bite him as he goes along cuz as you were saying what we were watching the episode they went into full-on Berserker mode after Danny started a bonfire including his own people exactly in the north like they are looting and raping murdering innocent civilians I give the show a quick shout-out because Game of Thrones is like notorious and we talk about the treatment of women for rape so I really appreciated that they took that moment to show that John was not okay and he saved that woman and he tried to help her right right I appreciate that there were a number of soldiers that tried to help people get out of situations because they couldn't understand the madness of it all John becoming more and more disillusioned as this went along goes as well they have a little they have a lot of meaningful glances yeah a double samanda being the last one standing with John is the hand of the King King Davos can't wait to basically the lowest of the low and end up to be king wouldn't that be something Liam cutting him come back fire : Davos fingers Onion Knight Returns oh god what have we got coming for us we'll see what happens with John Mina I think I think there's not much more to say about John because he just ends up being delusion by the whole situation which was a general point of him and the arc grey worm of course flips out everybody starts dying and Dany is setting everybody on fire let's move on to Arya and the Hound their journey right Arion hound i through that camp are you saying she is going to kill Cersei they go into the city they get in through the gates we see that young girl with her daughter or sister or whatever there is no mom maybe with her daughter or sisters there that ends up coming back later on for Arya but that's where they're introduced Jaime doesn't get in Jamie has to sneak around to do what he needs to do but let's focus on Arya and the Hound Tenace you see them going into this situation the Hound they get into the castle the hound stops Arya this is very very this was a little bit odd for me that the Hound would be the one to stop Arya and say no you don't want to live a life of revenge I did that already look at me you don't want to end up like me and she says thank you which leads to her you know BAE essentially trying to survive explosions all the way to the end of the episode did you like this twist in the tale that he was the one that stopped her when they confidently went into this thing that was a little weird be just because they'd traveled all the way from Winterfell dryer and he knew exactly what she wanted to do I mean you could kind of try and justify that with okay well the whole place is falling apart so he was like okay you don't need to kill her because she's gonna die anyways that's what he says and so they try to justify it that way just we refer her to come all the way down there and then turn around and kind of at the last moment and I I felt like the way that you thought at some point Daenerys was gonna pop up in front of Tyrion and maybe kill him yeah I was thinking that Arya was gonna after all that had happened that she was gonna come and see like I don't know Daenerys on drogon in some sort of position like a more vulnerable position she tries to take out Daenerys yeah that's kind of what I thought might have happened at the very end of the episode but but it didn't yeah Danny's decisions here Jon Snow's reaction Arya's journey just reaffirms what Sansa had worried about and Varys obviously predicted at the beginning of this episode the possibility of this orient in a little bit not always right yes always right he always gets it because he understands who should be sitting on the throne right and and says that to John earlier but as this goes along we see Arya go back and then she as I said she survives all these explosions see them when she rides off on a white horse trying to help and I think she sees the young girl and the mom Bert together with whatever the white horse that she's been carrying this and in certain cultures and I believe in Norse cultures but if I'm mistaken I apologize a white horse symbolizes death yes so this might be when she kept coming back to the mom and the daughter or sisters or the the two women I was like oh this is Arya putting to bed the faceless woman and I think that this is supposed to be symbolic of that death and I think she says to Sandor thank you and I think she calls him by his name right Tom and I think I said this jokingly earlier in the day but I think this might be her realization that she should go back to Gendry Oh Dobby yeah I like she might embrace yeah I don't think I don't know if I'd like that though I don't know I don't know if I would like it but to me I'm like you don't have her and you see her freaking out at death and like the the barbaric Ness of what's happening in a way that we haven't in other sort of harsher such harsh situations so I just wonder what that's trying to tell us because this what it says for Sandor is very clear this is his Redemption we've seen him care for Sansa they had their moment so that when he ultimately bites it in the Clegane bowl we feel okay right and he has his baptism by fire again in the end but I've been trying to figure out what it's telling us about Arya yeah and so the only thing that I can sort of come to is that this might be a rebirth for Arya I think that's what bothered me to be honest I was on her she spent seven seasons trying to become an assassin yeah right this was a needle from the beginning right there with the pointy end all that jazz it was about her staking her claim in the world she was not gonna be a lady she'll be one these people at court doing political stuff she's an assassin but she killed and I still up until the very end I thought she was gonna be quite burn in disguise whole time the whole time especially when he finally gets her to Cersei to leave well I know a place where you gonna be safe the old boy here comes but no it did not happen she ends up going through write-up yes the white horse is death it's a pale horse it's also symbolizes a hero warrior or someone who will bring death yeah and onto the world so you wonder if maybe she just ends up becoming and it doesn't go back that just ends up getting lost to the sands of time because I think she's gonna go back to Santa and tell her what happened and that's gonna give them both ammunition to go after John and should convince John to go after everyone's a speedster in this show it's crazy right steal a dragon I don't know okay so someone here Oscar Nelson says well no What did he say oh yeah td9 read says the point of her becoming an assassin was to kill the night king now that she's done that she served her purpose yeah I guess we'll see you know and I should say one last thing about Varys Varys dies remember Melisandre gave that prediction last season yeah both of them are going to die in this godforsaken land and it did come to pass in the end let's move on to the Hound his situation here the cleganebowl we got it we we certainly got it as I said quite born convinced to Cersei to leave where she's at and then come down and as they're coming down the stairs the entire top of the castle that area the castle comes off and we see the Hound show up in front of qui born the mountain Circe and three of her soldiers three soldiers attacked the hound the hound kills them all and then we get we get this whole thing after the mountain kills qui born Allah you know what the Frankenstein's monster wanted to do to Victor Frankenstein he kills him what do you think about this Dennis yeah I mean it wasn't exactly the death I was looking for for yeah just because of what he's done in the past but yeah and the mountain was there and it made sense and I just like how they just like all right I'm just gonna see you guys this is a big conversation I must see myself exactly not about her so no create that we didn't linger on that she was just like people because the mountain didn't listen to her when he said stand by my side he gives her that blood red look blood idler you know bloody I look and says no no I'm not doing that and quad weren't tries to interfere and he just gets his head cracked open for it and they have this massive battle a lot of fun kind of had shades of the bell on most of our when he's like I got the high ground when he took the Helmand I was like oh hey Durga it also look like beerus is a more steroid out brother the bald guy so it was this was an effectively awesome fight the hound was getting the shots in was winning this thing actually stabs him through the heart through the chest does nothing he is a full-on zombie now and of course us as fans were yelling at the television stabbed him in the head stabbed him in the head he starts to do the eyes thing like the mountain did to our poor overall more tell and then finally he stabs him in and even that doesn't kill him yeah eventually the Hound drives him through the wall and they both go into the fire who knows alive or dead certainly how probably dead but I don't know if the man I think there you got two factors of why they're probably dead do you think the Hound is stabbing him in the head as they're going down probably yes I don't think Sandra clicking goes out of the world and a happy way well both of you did you like this ending to the kleh game Bowl as a whole and the ending of it did you enjoy the way he went down I mean I've been saying this before because of who Gregor is now like this zombie it's less effective for me when he fight because now he's just this big monster versus okay he was a monster like character but he was still a person he was his older brother and that you know and they had their issues so when they fought it was like okay cool it was a cool battle I liked seeing them I think there was one shot of the Hound on the stairs looking up at the mountain and then you had the dragon fly in the background yeah it's burning yeah I just visually look great yeah he just looked like this unstoppable monster very Darth Vader s in that way I thought it was awesome in like the classical sense of the world like it was an awe to behold it and I love a good sword fight but I think Sandor Clegane story ends with that scene with Arya yes this was just a really cool button is his story yeah we've been waiting for it we want to see it absolutely and I think this is fanservice done right yeah I think there are instances in this show and another shows where it's done wrong but found this effective okay and and then you know was weird with the dragon going by and this maybe because I just saw Romo again I felt like the planes going by in those moments in the film and felt like the Dragons going by in that same kind of situation kind of showing you how small you really are in this world all right let's move on to our last these four here we saw what happened the choir born jaime and cersei this situation goes out Jamie first trying to get to her goes that end-around way that tyrion told him he sees the little boat there the dinghy still for lack of a better term Thanks hearing calls it a dinghy I don't know where of course you're on coming I'm kind of water God Jamie and they have the battle did you like this Ashley did you like this back-and-forth unum and the way that you're on died saying that he killed the Kingslayer I loved it great I love your own Greyjoy I'm sure they kept him around longer than he's gonna be featured in the books because that actor is freaking wonderful and to end on I'm the man who killed Jamie Lannister like why didn't a whole yeah what did Janice it's such a perfect ending for him and then setting up like that it how it sets the stakes for what Jamie's gonna do and I really thought Jamie was gonna be more active in his sister's demise mom and I I thought it was I thought setting him up as already injured was interesting yeah yeah he stabbed him twice yeah I got the best work at all which is logical I mean the man has only one hand he would she did used to affect that's a goal and we clocked him in the frown I don't think coming at you like that's pretty hardcore but in the end he does get the best of yarn and stabs him and two and his you know his heightened narcissism takes over their thinking that he killed Jamie Lannister is his last act on earth did you enjoy so did you like this character from the beginning Dennis and do you like the way he went out what do your honor yeah I like the way you and I like the whole battle my only issue with it is you're joking about like him popping out there at the right time you know I mean there was much of a coincidence that the Jamie was there I would have liked it more if he was already in the red keep right maybe in a way trying to protect Cersei and then they face off so there yeah it makes sense that those two were gonna fight and hey you know I wait and then Jamie getting stabbed and being injured I thought that that perhaps maybe they would have gotten away like Cersei and Jaime and then Jamie just ultimately died because he says he has conversations with Tyrion in certain episodes you know how they want to die and in Tyrion has a very graphic yeah sexual yes Ponce yes and Jamie's is he says it's Bronn – he says it wants – bran once I think – Tyrion like I want to die in the arms of the woman I love yes which happens I thought it would just be in a different setting yeah maybe on the boat as they're trying to get away he dies in her arms then Danny maybe catches on fire the dinghy speaking of bran do you think he's sitting on a mountainside watching this whole thing happened at hour waiting for them to March up and give him his like deed of ownership yeah that's probably sitting there with a nice port just waiting for them to walk up and give him his thing want to give Tommy some lovey boy he's donated for a top chat here one dragon took the whole city they turned Danny evil bricks killed Cersei throw it away petition to reduce season 8 anyone oh sorry Tommy that's not how this works in the real world you have to take with what you have to take what you've been given so you so we see this Jamie goes down he finds Cersei Cersei they tried to make her human with the crying I could care less I a good crap I know the shame moment was the last time I felt sympathy for Cersei but this I could care less because her crying about is always just crying's because she's losing and so she has this connection with Jaime they hug Jaime leads her down into the area there and then there but they see that they're walled off from all the destruction of the castle they can't get to the dead poor little dinghy out there and they he kind of she starts to break down and saying she doesn't want to die ala Giovanni Ribisi and Saving Private Ryan and he holds a Circe's face and says what he says did this moment work for you and the fact that we didn't get anybody actively killing Cersei was this a massive letdown for a lot of fans I think it was for a lot of fans yeah um I think it was for me I don't like Cersei I don't really care how she goes out like she's dead awesome I did think I mean that's truly I feel about it um I did think when she said I don't want to die I had a lot of empathy for her in that like cuz to me that's maybe the most honest thing she said in years and I like I felt that because that's how I would feel like I was like that would be scary even if you're there with the one person you love most in the world and you're like yeah I want to die with the person I love most in the world but like not crushed by bricks it doesn't matter if you're evil or not like that objective you know it was a nice moment it was a nice moment for Jaime and I think that was what this story was more interested in servicing than being a nice moment for Cersei but maybe we'll talk about this more on the podcast there is the prophecy about Cersei being killed by the valonqar which is Valyrian for little brother and I was thinking about it as this happened because ultimately she's killed by both of her brothers if this is gonna be what happens in the book and the Canon thing because it's Tyrians plan as executed by Jaime right um and I just wanted to mention that because I thought it was very interesting that they're both culpable yeah yeah that's a fair point and Dennis did you like the way sir su and Jamie went out specifically Cersei yeah Cersei no Jaime it felt more right yeah but you're you're I think I'm along with you where it services his story more with what I said call back to what he said before versus her where I really think that she should have died at the hands of Daenerys Tyrion or someone like that that has that's why I'd never subscribed to the idea of Arya killing Cersei even though they sure they had something in the very beginning of the series but really it didn't it's like Daenerys versus Cersei or you have Tyrion who's had that long history yeah or Jaime we mentioned yeah podcast Jaime actually killing her but they didn't go that route yeah my question here is that I I was unsatisfied this because I wanted someone to kill Suri I did I wanted her to realize the errors of what she'd done the terrible things that what she's done and even Jaime when in that Seema Tyrion says she does the worse things possible to protect her children so me trying to convince her not to do something will be irrelevant you know it won't work but I've got to try I guess and we know as viewers that she doesn't listen to Jamie right this would not know Jamie's first attempt trying to convince her of anything yeah because she can't she wears the pants in the family it's and literally and figuratively in that situation here so if you have her go out this way I think a lot of fans are gonna be upset about the way she went out I think people wanted her to die by Arya's needle or by Jamie stabbing her and you thought for a second that he would stab her before the bricks came maybe as a mercy kill so that she wouldn't feel the bricks falling on top of her killed by someone she loves maybe in the classically says that kill with hands around her throat right and we have this whole thing with Jamie with the golden hand so I thought maybe that was gonna be the way that she went out do you think she's she's dead right yeah they won't swerve us no I mean if they do like she calls from the rubble yeah I don't want to see Jamie having fallen on top where to protect it from the rubble know why the mountain just like we had the the night king in the White Walkers go away episode 3 that this part has ended right yeah this part has ended we are now into the Jon Snow vs. Daenerys yeah of the season or the series so I just feel like any clinging on to that that battle or that drama is pointless ok let me read some comments here people who are donating a lot of money Tim sim says safe to say seasoning is the last Jedi in TV history in terms of reactions ok if you feel that way I understand I think that's interesting because some people are pretty positive on it and some people are its devices it's very divisive that's for sure people have been all about it and then not all about it so can't stop be pieces can we all agree Sansa knew what Danny would do once she told Tyrion about the truth of John isn't she to blame as well I think blaming Sansa is not the right track to take on that okay move also Sansa told John I promise not to tell if you tell me the secret and Brant right right she didn't break no problem yeah that's a good point that's a great way around that I have to give you props on that um I think that's everything that happens we're left with a wrecked King's Landing completely destroyed King's Landing Danny is not to be seen at the end there's no shot of her at the end it's just Arya riding off on that white horse symbolizing death maybe Arya is not done maybe Arya will kill Danny next it was just standing with a huge smile on her face on all the wreckage I don't want to feel bad for is the Dothraki in the unsullied you have to build that damn city all over again yeah won't they they're probably employed to work to build the city back up but then it'll be in essence a multicultural City because they'll be able to like have their kids and whatever they are employed and paid a living wage I'm sure were you guys surprised at how bloodthirsty then sullied were especially grey were I mean he he sees Daenerys go and burn and he's like well alright because you have Jon Snow who's and also Davos who are conflicted about this in their life oh my god what's happening why are these people and gray were Masoli are like screw it I wasn't surprised by grey were okay right because of Miss Sunday so yeah I think you can empathize with that a little bit but I was surprised that we let the Dothraki kind of be that brutal because like Danny's been walking that back also they might not rebuild King's Landing a traditional seat of the Targaryen ziz Dragonstone all right so they may just bow to the guy yeah but no shot of the Iron Throne this episode next episode airs definitely gonna be yeah do you think she'll be crowned symbolically on the Iron Throne or Dragonstone I think the Iron Throne I think that's what she's been aiming for and I think you're gonna airlift it out with drogon you're gonna carry it question for the next episodes I could see that at what point is Jon Snow going to confront Danny or yeah basically oppose her is it like he's going to be upset with her and then try and follow her and then she does some more stuff that he's unhappy with or it's just straight out like I can't believe you did this like we we had a fight now okay so what do you think what do you where does this word is to send up myself because we're at the end of this recap I think we should wrap up by speculating a little bit about what we think might happen here and I don't want to ruin what the throne so give me just a little bit I'm sure you guys are gonna speculate as well sure I think either John or Danny or maybe both are going to die toluse it's almost I think only one of them is gonna be crowned Wow so do you think they both might die I you do I would kill them both the steering the steering end upon the throne I and weave I've said this in previous podcast I think Tyrion is one of the only ones left alive I do yeah okay I don't see him on the throne though you don't know I see either John or Danny one of them is dying okay okay maybe both but I can't see both of them living I don't see Tyrion on throne it's weird that they're doing like sportsbook odds on these things of course for some reason bran is like the odds on favorite for for what's being on the throne it's gonna live in a tree yes I would be upset with I would not want bran as my cake Jess why did we do this whole thing in the brand sits on the Iron Throne so I'm hoping that it is John Danny teryn I would love to I just don't think they're gonna do it um you know Gendry was cool but he didn't even fight in this battle you know I mean like so yeah it's one of those things where they stick brain on there it's like I yeah but it's interesting because people are so invested and we do have such conflicting opinions which we see with people's comments versus our takes which is awesome but I wonder is there any way no matter what ending they pick if people are gonna be satisfied like I'll be interested in next week's reactions yeah and whether or not the hot take is that it was a successful finale or not because it's taller yeah that's gonna be divisive like like always good Danny okay I like this so many commented here is Danny pregnant with John's baby I mean we speculate he's like in order for her to come to term with the baby can't die right away yeah right is this so is that are we gonna be like I don't know next episode nine months later I mean yeah I don't know exactly the timeline of when they had sex on the boat yeah till now well I get in gave me one nine actually technically closer to ten months cause it's 40 weeks there you go hosted it ten months early then there Tommy says Brand has done absolutely nothing lol all that building for him to just stare people enroll his eyes in the back of his head yeah I mean I was he's like he's a plot device is why I don't want to see him on there and throw the camp said why it would have made out really well I think that's the problem I think people feel about over this last season is this feeling of like these people have been these big built up things have been turned into props and we're starting to wonder what the depth of these creatures were I think the medium and I think that's some problem with restricting us to these last two seasons being as short as they're right I mean I think this should have been a better choice yeah but it was a choice of someone you know it wasn't the showrunners choice was it the executive choice was at the I they claim it's their choice but you're right there might have been no I think we all know there's a lot of people making this decision it's the showrunners choice because they are like look we want to go move on and do other HBO doesn't want to shut down this show they were there printing money with this thing yeah service of the story perhaps not and then actors they also want to move on and go rings you know they're not tweeting out dislike when the when the season I mean it's not alive so yeah I mean there's a lot of factors I don't think it's the medium no can I think the medium can sustain something like this I just think because of all the outside factors mm-hmm it forced them to be like alright we can only do 7 episodes in 6 episodes I think budget wise – in time wise because I think if they actually wanted to do what I want which is another you know the last two seasons being tended yeah yeah we would have waited a long time just think about how long it took them just to do this six episodes it wasn't like they were sitting in relying there was no vacation in comparison to the books which is the nature of it george RR martin in a room tap tappy tappy he can take as much geography with these moments that people I think are feeling slighted yeah yeah you feel and you feel that you see in the comments certainly its divisive a lot of people loved it a lot of people hated it people are saying what about salsa couldn't salsa be the Queen if they both kill each other possibly possibly yeah Tyrion could live that way she could serve well it becomes an interesting question then of aren't they also still married um it becomes interesting question of who has the best claim to the throne if there's no Lannisters or Targaryen spying for it right stark Gendry the Baratheon from the little dove to the Queen that's certainly possible I would be down with sahn's to taking over and being Queen at the end of this whole thing maybe orchestrating some kind of coup lon Danny can maybe Aria is the one who kills Danica's member essentially the Aria almost got killed by Danny yes and everything that's happening in as she was running through the town the dragons and the soldiers and everything like that she was certainly subject to death by what Danny was doing so she might have a bone to pick there her and you know she's riding the white horse like you said yeah Ashleigh symbolizes death this could be death that she kills Danny she goes the white queen or she goes the white king and the White Queen it's really possible one last thing here from Adam grunt there is coming do you think supporting characters like bronze Sam and torment will appear in the finale or do you think the story is because we didn't see Yara bran never seen yard when every show you know John's gonna do something beyond that's okay that's that I think we might see Bronn I think torment and ghost are off doing their spin-off yes those are great gravity so you haven't seen floating around the internet oh my god I think there's very little time left for our favorite supporting characters unfortunately we saw the goodbye to say I'm from John we did I think I think that's nothing he's he's gone off to be Lord of horn Hill and have his baby Wow alright what happens that you're going who's gonna kill trickle you killed Danny who's gonna kill drew John what yeah oh he's right you think he's gonna ride him into stab mines right no more take this is a Lord of the Rings Ian's conclusion Lord of the Rings ends with their sending their matching out of the world the elves there was a dreaming and that's what we've killed the White Walkers we're gonna kill the dragons the direwolves are all gone we don't know any that are wolves are I think this is sort of and in keeping in touch with the war the Roses this is a turning over of an era I think this makes sense to me on so many levels because I mean the idea of Sansa possibly becoming Queen now at the end here if you talk about magic because both Jon was brought back to life and Dany walked through fire to birth three dragon eggs yeah so that's all magic yep so maybe salsa who has not to had any magic at her facility or been the subject of magic is the one standing at the end with Tyrion who also I don't think is had any kind of magic involved yeah it's a Brandon John yeah bran John Dean involved with arias could certainly die Danny could certainly see Arya as a possible but it also could be a double kill yeah yeah but though I think it's more poetic to have John tell her yeah if they want to go that route I guess I don't want John to kill her I don't Jon kills every gun guess everyone who loves him killed he does get them killed he doesn't kill them that's the whole thing that they're pushing though he's seen what happened in this episode and I think that is the ultimate like you know he's a good person we know he's a good person and we know he does the right thing but on the other hand he's honor and loyalty yeah like at what point is is that you know gonna break yeah well let's wrap up here with this last comment from a Heche he says will bran warg into the dragon and Arya take Danny's face no one is talking much about the dragon we just did Danny isn't the threat the dragon is that's fair so could brand warg the dragon to debt like Ward the dragon and make it do something to kill itself I mean in the realm of all things possible sure uh traditionally only people who are Targaryen have access to the dragon including John okay uh you can't warg into the could he maybe I think it's I think it's unlikely it Ward's me the drag gets pissed sets him on a worgen to Danny how to get things done I want to thank the almost that almost of the over 15,000 of you who watched with us live this recap the battles bring you out so respect we really appreciate you guys coming in and your comments have been fantastic I can't read them obviously because they're coming so fast but the people who paid had to give you respect give you some love and read your comments out everyone else thank you so much they were fantastic to read and definitely a divisive episode of divisive season but no less entertaining and I think at the end of the day that's what we really want from a show the depth of this is a rush 66 episode season so you got to do what you can any final thoughts from both of you about this as we head into the last episode of this entire series truly I think it's I like that it's divisive and I like that we have a chance to have discourse between us and with the people who are commenting and I would remind people that when you do feel frustrated because I like to remind myself of this it's still better than so much else of what television we're so lucky to have the show of flaws and all it's not a perfect episode but I did enjoy it a lot and I think a lot of the things they did do right there there some things they didn't do but I mean because of the nature of the rush yeah seasons I think that was this ultimately part of that and so I I did enjoy this more than the the long night the Battle of Winterfell which we had a very cool ending and it's just I think and I mentioned this little before I care about the characters yeah yeah why they were fighting and whatnot not you know this zombie forced it really yeah yep you have no motivation whatsoever you know I will say this I'm a little split on the episode I would I'm half in and enjoyed it happen didn't some of the endings these characters I didn't like and so that leaves a little bit of bad taste in mouth I'm on the other side of dentists I enjoyed the Battle of Winterfell more than the Battle of King's Landing even because even though I couldn't see much I was enjoying the stakes and the speed of the battle and how it went around I enjoy that a little bit more that being said this is still was a phenomenal episode to watch with some great moments of great scenes we'll see how this all plays out next and next episode and who's going to who's gonna die and if anyone is sitting on that damn damn iron throne or it's gonna be shattered to pieces or maybe set on fire by Drogo and we will see and I like the idea of Dragonstone I like that that puts a lot of thoughts in my head all right let us know what you thought in the comments section below some of you the left chats maybe you want to move over the comments section and leave some comments about the show we'll take a look at them to see what you think remember to subscribe it to Claddagh be or for all the Game of Thrones content we'll have coming on through the week as we head into the series finale next Sunday actually where can you follow me thank you so much for joining us thank you you can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Ashley V Robinson the V is very important and don't forget to check out what the throne where I think Dennis and I are gonna get a real deep on what we think is happening next yeah I think I'll do a series for a series finale prediction for our next episode which we're shooting tomorrow yep so awesome awesome Dennis at think hero yeah I think hero instagrammed anesthesia ng and like I said what the throne we're doing our series finale predictions you know we did predictions at the beginning in the season they've changed since then so now it should be fun well there you go you can follow me at the rogue says on Twitter and on Instagram shout out to Adam Smith who makes this all happen for us and takes time out on a Sunday I hope you guys enjoyed yourselves and we'll talk to you next week for another episode of Thrones talk